TOI : Since your release from jail, you have visited many states for campaigning.What has been the response and what do you think will be the final outcome?
Kejriwal: I have been campaigning extensively in Delhi and also travelled to Punjab, Kurukshetra, Bhiwandi, Mumbai, Lucknow and Jamshedpur. I have spoken to a lot of people. There is a lot of distress and anger because of inflation and unemployment. But pradhan mantri ji is not talking about that. In Mumbai, he said Sharad Pawar is a bhatakti aatma (a wandering soul), Uddhav Thackeray is a fake child of his father and that the INDIA bloc will snatch your mangalsutra. People want solutions for their problems but they are not talking about the real issues.
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Second, it seems they haven’t put up a united front this time. JP Nadda said in an interview that they don’t need RSS’s help anymore. That means there is friction between BJP and RSS and Sangh is not supporting them. Third, due to their succession battle — a large number of BJP leaders don’t like Modi ji and Amit Shah ji. There is turmoil inside and BJP is not working as a team. Looking at all these factors, it seems BJP’s tally will fall below 220 and the INDIA bloc will cross the 300 mark and give a clean and stable govt to the country.
Also, people are quite worried about the (changing number of) voter turnout. There is a PIL in Supreme Court on this that’s being heard by Chief Justice. It is being said that the voting figures shared in the evening (on the day of polling) are revised and increased by ECI a week later. Journalists filed an RTI for the actual number of votes polled (which ECI has not shared). If ECI does not have the data on how many votes have been polled, how is it counting? There is something wrong and people are worried about it. Elections should be transparent and these basic figures should not be hidden. ECI should share the data upfront. I hope SC will give an order in favour of transparency.
Fresh cases are being filed against AAP. How do you assess the impact on party members and supporters?
■ AAP has been the most persecuted party ever in history. More than 250 cases have been filed against the party and its functionaries. We have been acquitted in more than 130 cases. In many cases, courts have badly reprimanded the agencies. All cases filed against us are fake. BJP fears the phenomenal growth of AAP. In the past 10 years, AAP has formed govts in two states, has MLAs in four and municipal councillors and sarpanches (village heads) in many others. AAP has become a national party in just 10 years. They want to nip AAP in the bud. They have launched ‘Mission Jhadu’ to crush AAP. It is being said that after elections, they will seize our bank accounts and get our office vacated. While Manish Sisodia, Sanjay Singh, Satyendar Jain, I and my PA have been arrested, they may now arrest Atishi and Saurabh Bharadwaj too. The good thing is that they thought AAP will disintegrate and the govts in Delhi and Punjab will fall but nothing happened. AAP is united like a family and its energy has doubled. All this has backfired on them.
When you recently enlisted your own guarantees — including action on China — you said at that point you hadn’t discussed these with the alliance partners. Have you taken it up with them?
■ I have indeed discussed the 10 guarantees with some. The first agenda of an INDIA bloc govt will be to get back our land from China. China is slowly encroaching on our land but the Modi govt is not accepting it. They are in denial mode. Satellite images have shown that China has come inside our borders and made roads and bridges in our territory. To find a solution to this, we need to work on the diplomatic as well as armed forces’ level. If your friends invest in China or have business interests there, you will feel weak when you talk to China. They will threaten to harm the business interests of your friends. This is a big reason for our diplomatic efforts failing. It is surprising that on one hand China has come inside our territory and on the other hand, it has become our biggest trading partner. That wasn’t the fact before 2014. They are threatening us, attacking us, encroaching on our land and we are doing business with them. That means we are not honest in our interactions with China. We are also not honestly telling our people the real situation. The INDIA bloc will talk to China honestly and top concerns will include security and land. Trade will come next. Our forces are capable of dealing with them but they have not been given a free hand by the govt. What we need today is intent which the incumbent govt is lacking because of the business interests of their friends.
But the govt did impose a ban on mobile apps…
■ The ban on mobile apps is a cosmetic measure. Do they think people of this country are fools? If we ban four apps, will China vacate our land?
Will AAP be a part of an INDIA bloc govt?
■ For AAP, power is not important. It is not important whether we stay in the govt or out of it. That only time will decide. What is important is that I take the guarantee of getting all our guarantees fulfilled. I don’t think INDIA bloc partners will have a problem with any of them. These guarantees touch the life of the common man. We will open mohalla clinics in every village and a good multispecialty hospital in each district where medicines and treatment will be free. We will withdraw the Agniveer scheme. Congress has also promised that. We said we will give MSP (on all crops) to farmers. Our partners will be ready for this. We have promised to simplify trade, industry and GST procedures and implement ease-of-doing business in the real sense. We will eliminate corruption. They run a washing machine, induct all corrupt people into the party and put the honest ones in jail.
Will you push for full statehood as you have promised?
■ We will get Delhi full statehood. This is the top demand of 2.5 crore people of Delhi and I believe all alliance partners will support us on this.
The unique status of Delhi as the national capital is often raised as an issue. TOI, sometime back, suggested in its editorial that NDMC area be kept as a Union territory…
■ That is a model concept. The Centre should declare the New Delhi Municipal Council area as a Union territory and the rest of Delhi should be declared as a state. That is the model that we also suggest.
These are parliamentary elections and BJP is talking about Kashmir, terrorism, appeasement of minorities, CAA and, of course, Ram Mandir while your campaign in Delhi showcases your work in providing free bijli-paani, bus rides, education and health. Is it going to work? The PM calls them ‘revdis’ and there is a view that this approach is not economically sound. How do you counter this?
■ This election has become very local. People are really worried about inflation and unemployment. Due to the financial benefits that we provide in Delhi, inflation here is the lowest in the country — less than 3 per cent while the national average is more than 6 per cent. We have provided more than 12 lakh jobs in Delhi. When I go campaigning, I don’t have to tell people what we have done but I tell them why I have been arrested. I have been arrested because the PM wants to stop Delhi’s good govt schools, mohalla clinics and free electricity and water. He said in a TV interview recently that women should not get free bus rides. People are scared that if they vote for BJP, they will put Kejri wal in jail and stop all free schemes. In our 10 guarantees, we have talked about people’s daily issues. What we have done in Delhi, will be done in the country. This is real rashtra nirmaan (nation building). The public does not have anything to do with what BJP talks about in its campaign.
I don’t think I have seen a more confused and hypocritical PM than the present one. He waived the loan dues of friends amounting to Rs 15 lakh crore and provided Rs 25,000 crore corporate tax incentives. When the PM gives halwa to his friends, it is ok; when I give revdi to poor and middle class, they have a problem. They should decide if revdi is better for health or halwa.
Unemployment and inflation have not become major talking points in these elections though on the ground, these seem to be the issues that are agitating people’s minds. Why do you think these are not being talked about?
■ I talk about unemployment and inflation in every speech….Those who don’t want to give their vote to Modi say it is because of inflation and unemployment. Only AAP has worked to give relief to people from this. If we add the total financial benefits a family gets because of free education, health, electricity, water, bus rides and pilgrimage, it comes to Rs 10,000-15,000 per month. An autorickshaw wallah told me that he could survive in Delhi because of these free things. People mock BJP when they talk about mangalsutra. They have never heard the words unemployment and inflation, which are actual problems, from the PM’s mouth.
The PM and home minister have said that issuing of electoral bonds was a step against black money and has brought transparency into the system. What’s your take?
■ The electoral bond is the biggest scam in independent India, and it is not one but multiple scams. Every single donation to BJP or most of the donations to that party are somehow linked to a quid pro quo — someone got a contract and they gave donations; or ED and CBI threatened them and they gave donations; when bails were given in ED and CBI cases, they got donations. They probably got Rs 8,000 crore (in donations), including Rs 1,700 crore related to ED and CBI cases. Each donation needs to be investigated, and if the INDIA bloc forms govt, then in the first 100 days, all electoral bond donations will be investigated.
You have an alliance with Congress in Delhi. Several functionaries left that party. Do you see a perfect vote transfer?
■ We had initial hiccups. I have been campaigning for the past 10 days, and now there is very good synergy at all levels, be it that between senior functionaries or karyakartas. Workers of both parties are moving around together. I have campaigned for all Congress candidates.
A message has gone down very clearly to all people that this election is not about voting for the party; it is about saving the country and Constitution. If Modi ji and BJP return to power, there won’t be any elections again. It would be like Russia, Bangladesh and Pakistan. In Russia, they put the entire opposition in jail or killed its senior functionaries and then held elections – Putin got an 87% percent vote share. Sheikh Hasina put the entire opposition in jail and got a landslide victory in elections. Imran Khan was jailed and his party and symbol snatched. Elections were held after that. If they win this round, then Mamata Banerjee, Rahul Gandhi, Pinarayi Vijayan, MK Stalin…all will be jailed, and then elections will be held.
What impact is the rash of cases having on governance?
■ Their whole intent is to not allow govt to function…they want to stop our work, and the best way to do that is to start investigating everything. Despite all these obstacles, we have been successful in doing our work. This affects speed but we are doing the work.
You have to go back to jail on June 2. How do you think the govt will function in Delhi?
■ There are two aspects — legal and political. We got the mandate in Delhi thrice and 67 and 62 seats on the last two occasions. So, Modi ji now thinks it is impossible to defeat us in assembly elections in Delhi. So, he hatched a conspiracy to arrest me in a false case so that I may resign. We will not fall into their trap. They want me to resign so that they can pull down the AAP govt. If they put democracy in jail, then we will run democracy from jail. The govt will be run from jail. We went door to door and asked people and 30 lakh said I should not resign. Secondly, I have not been convicted or sentenced in any case. If there is more than two years of conviction, then one cannot fight for an MLA’s post. So I can fight for the post. If I can do that, then I can also become a minister. And if I can become a minister, then I can also become CM. If I can become CM, then I should get the facilities needed to work as CM. We will go to court and say that.
Sunita ji is increasingly being seen in public – she even appeared on the campaign trail with you. Will she have a larger role in the party?
■ I am very fortunate that I got such a life partner. She has been tolerating a person like me for many years. I was a joint commissioner of income tax and one day I resigned, came home and started working in the jhuggis of Delhi. It is not easy for any woman to accept that but she has been a pillar of strength. She has supported me all through. She has no interest in taking an active part in politics. During these times, she acted as a bridge between me and the people of Delhi. She used to tell me what’s happening outside, and I would convey my message through her.
Your party says that the entire Swati Maliwal matter is a conspiracy of BJP. How have you reached such a conclusion against your own MP?
■ The matter is now sub judice and the police are investigating. Any statement by me can be twisted. So, I would say that justice should be done but would not like to comment on it. I would urge police to carry out an honest investigation.
Your senior party functionaries are in jail and you too will have to return and stay there till the court takes a decision. Assembly elections are just months away. Is that going to be a handicap?
■ On the contrary, the more people they put in jail, the more votes we will get. If they put more people in jail, they will not get a single seat. We will fight from jail and win. People will make us win. This is backfiring on them. They should understand they are turning a democracy into tyranny.
You have seen many ups and downs. Any regrets?
■ I don’t think so. I used to work in an NGO, and if a person was stealing (what was meant for people), we would file an RTI and give it all to the media. We had a tough time getting even one ration shop closed; it took years. Now, we are carrying out changes on such a large scale.
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Your critics say that when you were in an NGO, you were very idealistic, but now that you have become CM, you have got used to the perks of office? For instance, ‘Sheesh Mahal’ is now mentioned a lot of times.
■ This is being done out of mischief. The Delhi CM did not have a residence, and tomorrow whoever becomes the CM will use this house. Sheila ji lived in a house on Mathura Road and later on Motilal Nehru Marg. By the time I became CM, Manmohan Singh had shifted there. So, I shifted to this house. This house was constructed in the 1940s. One day, the bedroom roof collapsed at night and on another day, the roof of the study caved in. PWD said the house was dilapidated and needed to be constructed again. If you compare it with the residence of other CMs of the country, you will find it quite modest.
Over your long journey, has Arvind Kejriwal changed as a person?
■ I think my tolerance has gone up and anger decreased.